Company Formation for the purpose of Trading (CFDs, spot etc)

Yeah, you are right... But it is important for overall strategy and purpose of the company... For example.. Delaware have some very good options to start but
is regarded somewhat suspicious because as there are perks.. are also the perks that might attract also some other business... The same problem with Panama etc...
I mean in some countries.. you could get like 1 billion in bank account and no one cares, but if you have like 50k in Panama! You are regarded as a... you know what
Wa talked about Icahn here... Not sure he is moving for tax reasons, at least as primary reason.. at his age, at his wealth... You know what I found good about NYC..
It costs very little annually.. if I got it right... Like 9USD Biennial! Delaware is 300USD annaul, Florida 138USD annual. So not sure what other FIX costs are there but NYC seems CHEAP af... Very important for a trader to have fix costs down... and maybe to have some "1st world 1st city" status because you know this "off-shore" leaks... If you make 1USD profit! off-shore.. you are a suspect... If you make 1mio in NYC... I think you are treated as struggling entrepreneur.. not worth the attention... If you know what I mean.. Not to mention if anyone would like to seek some capital/debt...

Do you know if stand-by costs for NYC LLC are really very low or I am missing something... LLC Annual Fee, anything else? RA Agent?
I am not concerned about taxes atm (I do plan to have none, you know the best companies/corps in US pay almost zero - but realistically I would either SPENT it or PAY it... for additional trading profits.. still option to incorporate in some tax heaven if taxes would be a concern... in fact.. would maybe incorporate in US/NYC just for additional trading and would swallow the taxes in worst case) ... just fix costs and exposure...

And yes, having operating business in US... (as EU citizen or elsewhere)... that can sustain itself.. and can cover at least one person comfortably.. might always/atm be a good thing because one can apply for E-2... I have noticed some are very interested in US VISA... EB-5 seems to be some direct (passive) route but 500k-1mio would be needed... With E-2... 50k+ might be eligible.... I find E-2 even better than EB-5 in some cases.. Some "opt" for it intentionally.. because they do not want to be permanent/tax payer in US (also)...

So If anyone would like to know more, tell me/us.. so we can post some clips.. Have "researched" the issue in the past... and still check from time to time.. BTW many good youtube clips about it... just put: company formation, incorporating, US, *city*... visa, business visa, Many legal companies provide FREE advice in case you opt to hire them to make the rest...

Hedge fund option:
Btw, this thread, with the help of some private message that I received... stimulated me to look into forming a hedge fund.. Some interesting options...
But just to maybe stimulate others also... Seems no minimum capital needed?... Good clip (direct link to time t=2m22):

Also some clip (direct link to time: t=8m) for some to see how typical? hedge funds are structured.. basically on-shore management company + offshore fund(s)...

VISAs (not the main/original purpose of the thread, but noticed some are interested) so here is quickly:
And since I noticed many are interested in VISAs also.. maybe this, for
EB-5 (basics: 500k/1mio investment, employment for 10 people...
https://www.quora.com/Can-you-start-...-the-EB-5-visa and for
E2/E-2 visa it seem the minimum eligible investment would be 50k+ and be able to generate more than minimal income...
"The investment cannot be marginal, and must have the capacity to generate more than a minimal income."

But for this CFD trading for US citizens... you would of course check if this is legal... I do not see why it wouldn't be.. since US citizens can formate companies around the world? And what company does is (usually) separate... But there are some cheap option to open a company in some EU countries.. and in the world of course... You could google yourself, so that I won't do any promotion "company formation in *country*".
Yeah, CFDs are not permitted for US residents/citizens? https://www.contracts-for-difference...trictions.html But can US companies trade them? In that case...

Carbon Trading (EUA - ECF/CO2)
The original idea behind this thread was to help US citizens to trade CO2s... or European Emission Allowances (EUA) a.k.a. Carbon Emissions (CO2).
https://www.theice.com/products/197/EUA-Futures Since they EUAs are Futures Contract, can US residents/citizens trade them? Or (over) US company/ies?
ICE ECX Carbon Emissions future

Structuring as a Commodity Pool Operator (CPO) is probably the easiest way to set up a hedge fund in the US. In terms of licensing, you'd only need a Series 3 which doesn't require sponsorship unlike the more common Series 7.

Tnx man... How about the CFD trading for US people.. Possible via US company? Or could you place CO2 futures? I checked with plus500 and they say they only provide CFDs even though it says... CO2 EU Allowance Future-ICE (https://www.plus500.com/Instruments/ECF) and one would think...
Would think it can be possible with this hedge fund option also... but is rather expensive setup to just trade CO2s... but not that much again... For example 11k USD (for *Cayman Exempted Fund - up to 15 investors) for Set-up cost + 1 year of disbursements... But for PROP trading it is much better to setup simple company (can be below 1k USD).. in EU or wherever... to have access to CO2s (CFDs) for example... legally of course, but would need to check, to be sure...

ICE offers EUA Futures for trading Carbon Emission Allowances. Liquidity looks pretty low though:

Yeah, but would you be able to trade it as such? For example I checked at plus500 that does offer it... it also quotes ICE...
https://www.plus500.com/Instruments/ECF (as CO2 EU Allowance Future-ICE)... but when I check on the webchat... they offer through CFDs...
Also, would US citizens be able to trade futures unlike CFDs?

Yeah, liquidity is shit But that might be a good thing! I have demonstrated what can be done here... Check the 50% return... I have also live tracked the trade before that return, in that thread... https://www.energyexch.com/showthread.php?p=12528985
That thread also inspired me to open this one since someone mentioned US citizens can not trade it CFDs (so CO2s at the brokers that I have found)...

Yeah, I don't see any reason we couldn't trade it. I'll make a note to look into it more.

Wow, really nice work!

Great, please let us know, if you do! It looks like to trade directly on ICE, some greater deposit would be needed... because whenever I see "Request more information" it smells by "larger deposit" or "institutional accounts only"... Specially if I click.. it wants Job titles etc... So if it is possible, great or if some broker provide it for US citizens.. as futures...

Yeah, that was the reason to open this thread, to maybe help US citizens that are CUT off this maybe wonderful market (didn't even know you can not trade CFDs, untill someone mentioned it in the thread)... I talk about this (low volume) market in this second thread... For example.. bitcoin markets were a joke in the beginning, many got RICH by it... now it is totally different game with BTC... So there is maybe a opportunity for CO2 now, because once it maybe attracts too many people.. it might change.. At least I didn't have to worry about some spikes and some high-impact bullshit news, for now But yeah, it was slow af... almsot gave up... you can check the live feed as I was posting But if it would go like this, I wouldn't mind longer waiting times

So here you have the "spark", if you are interested, if you will check, please share for others also If you find the way for US citizens to trade CO2.. this non-US company formation... might not be needed for US citizens to have access to CO2 trading

Good discussion for eaves-dropping. You guys are laying down some excellent insights! Not much I can add, but fascinating ideas and I'm following with much interest your findings.

Much tnx man! I think we covered some basics... but since I do not know in what direction anyone is interested (further), one must ask first and than I might help with answer or search it up But I would advise that some serious traders do omen a company... for a lot of reasons... specially if they are cheap to run.. which it seems to be the case.. Also, depends on what type of trading and what terms one has with the broker.. Would specially advise it for "no neg balance" protection brokers/markets etc..

BTW I am interested in this ICE trading for US citizens (to maybe try to help - we in EU can do that already - for now!)... cause I still think they formatting company might be cheaper, lower deposits Suspect ICE would want at least 5-10k balance to start with... If they would offer to individuals anyway...

You know, I've given some thought towards creating a company lately due to a compliance issue I'm dealing with... My wife works for one of the major banks so all my trades have to go through pre-clearance now and there's a 30 day holding period. It hasn't been a problem yet, but we're about to get into a more turbulent time in the markets and it may pose a problem. Creating a trading company might get me out from under these restrictions so I'm considering it.

I think that you have no choice than to open a company yet Because you might be compliant to report when closing trades also and sometimes trades must be FIRE-SALLED... Because some do trade like that btw... open (Hedge) trades and than making trades with CLOSING, not sure how much (are they aware of it) but by that logic, I would assume ALL trade (before opening, before closing the position) should be checked for compliance...

I am not sure this company formation would get you off the hook, because do not know what the terms of the bank (or SEC) are... but if you are only obligate to report PRIVATE trades.. then you are off the hook with private company.. Because I do believe you do not get any inside info from the bank, via wife, even if you would want to... If you can not do that, they then might be some other legal ways also.. But I would suspect COMPANY formation might takes a MAJOR role in this

So, keep up expanding your mind with this, I approve this Everything happens with the THOUGHT... BTW.. if you have a wife... I think you know benefits of formatting a company also.. For either your protection or your both... Keywords: ASSET PROTECTION, limiting the exposure... Here.. BTW I do not know if I found the exact right clip that I wanted to, but see (seriously recommend it - act now! - not many people think in those terms, until too late. Or for more... Robert Kiyosaki asset protection talks much about this... What I am trying to say... a company is a MUST, specially in USA... TBH. Think about it... You know how it is.. when things are good, happy... not much difference (and many things seem unnecessary, for example INSURANCE) , but when shit hits the fan.... It shows who is who, what is what... For example, in peaceful times, when we are all healthy and fed well... not much difference between where you live, move, how much "buffer"... you get the idea

BTW... Happy to inform you all that I also inspired myself... this HEDGE FUND "virus" have been installed in my head and it is eating me alive, in a positive way... So I am looking heavily into this... but need some confirmation first and then I think it might happen... Would sure glad to share the details, if not more If all goes well...

BTW just researched a little and found out that this off-shore or tax heaven thing is crap (at least to me) Too much work, re-checking compliance all the time.. also brexit situation threatens to make it difficult (or at least unpredictable), also many countries try to find a way to make it unattractive, not to mention the LEAKS... Too much of a hustle... At least for the trading I am looking for... So the original idea of traditional off-shore companies was to have LESS bureaucracy but now I saw that this might not be true at all! In comparison, seems like opening a NYC LLC is like ordering a HOT-DOG on the streets of Manhattan... compared to Hedge in Cayman for example... Nightmare... too much work, I would just prefer to make money, have some good simple tax-setup and GTFO.

Also if you make 1EUR at tax heavens you are suspicious (specially if listed under those PARADISE PAPERS.. you are seen as instant fraud even if you were totally legit but wanted some privacy) and have to report 100x more... source of totally legit profits... but if you make 100x more.. in PLAIN SIGHt.. no-one gives a rats ass... Specially in NYC when you are considered a bump under certain income...the same income that would look WELL-OFF at certain (most) countries It's like "he made 50k in Caymans... evil"... and "company made only 1mio in profits in NYC, what a bump" So f. this garbage atm... I mean, I was talking with some people (just now) specialised in this and it is already too much of a headache... Would focus on PROFITS instead... and will stimulate the economy with either SPENDING the profits or paying taxes... like a boss BTW NYC LLC seems very attractive... yeah some set-up costs but AFTER... very low maintenance, if I understand correctly... Delaware etc.. are opposite.. To tell you the truth, I do not like the name Delaware, not the first time I heard it and not even now that I was forcing myself to like it.. So back to MAIN thing... Well won't give all the details but... would prefer to have it light.. and MINIMAL bureaucracy... And TAXEs are the SWEET problems of profitable (REAL) trader/company... to be honest In fact, heard that 90% of Hedge Funds don't even deliver what indexes does... But I would not be surprised if they got all the "tax" setup right

BTW.. sorry if anyone is offended, but this is just not me.. would rather FOCUS on TRADING and PAY the (higher) taxes if needed.. In fact, there are many "1st world" countries that also have rather good tax options... So I won't be dealing with the (LOST IN) PARADISE situation or even "Deadly Paradise", at least not now and hopefully won't need it in the future also Will also call a compliance 800 phone number that I found out about... just to have restful sleep... Also please note that if you LOSE, no one cares... if you make sub 10% annual and do not have like others people millions... no one cares so no chance for ponzi if only prop trading...
But I believe even if company is PROP but is making EXTRAordinary profits... it had to be checked, by default... and everything must be ironclad... foolproof...

In fact, might start with BASIC, SIMPLE prop NYC LLC, open corporate trading account at the broker I already know till the last detail... BTW some brokers are really shitty about company/corporate accounts (just found out today, some broker that I use for private, disappointed me in this regard)... yeah you guessed where they might be from... So I would stick with my longest known broker, OANDA.. for this setup. At the beginning at least.. so NYC LLC+corp OANDA account seems best option atm... In fact I also found some potential (big) benefit of creating this set-up with OANDA, over US company...

And to Ef5 (almost typed EB5 ... I suggest you do something similar... after checking everything of course, would advise you to form company in the most "plain sight" location possible... Because if THE BANK sees your name connected in ANY of PARADISE PAPERS... you might be searched for every cent that you spend in the last 10years Just not worth it man (regardless if everything is legit, people are focused to find something in paradise... Maybe Delaware/Nevada might be good options for you... I just personally do not feel it and I hope I will be able to afford that kind of luxury, to disregard it on the sole base it feels "not right" and also is, I believe, associated with fraud too much.. While NYC seems most verified, drilled option ever... This means a lot to me, not to find out everything from scretch.. Just form company, had simple (tax) setup, TRADE, that's it... When "the problem" of profits come into play... I can't wait to help problem dissolve with the help of the AMEX, salary, bonus or would stimulate economy with TAXes as a good citizen... and I might get VISA as a side bonus, should I need it, always good to have options *BTW can you imagine your wifes major bank finding your name under some LEAKS... I mean I bet you might spend the next 10 years providing proof for every burger that you earned with some other (trading) profits, that it wasn't connected to any insides.. and the you do no have additional 100 PARADISE proxies somewhere Open the LLC in front of their faces (after checking if trading via comp would be compliant of course)... with corp account at their bank and they can check every cent, for additional comfort

I know too many businesses that got lost in the bureaucracy already.. when dealing with savings far exceeded the savings themselves... This is specially true in trading... You can WIPE all the "tax" savings with a few trades... So would prefer to focus on TRADING and have the pros set-up some good (tax) setup and that's it... Good thing is that NYC is so drilled in this that there are many tested (from all angles) "templates"...

BTW reminds me of this quote from Suits:
Scottie: I forgot how provincial Pearson Hardman was. One office. One city.
Harvey: One office. The city.
https://suits.fandom.com/wiki/Pearson_Hardman



To be Continued, hopefully...

P.S. If I would want to pay no taxes... would stick to FX spot trading as individual since we have 0 tax (in fact, not 0, it is not even taxable, no need to report, no income tax, nothing - the last time I checked) for currency spot trading in my country.. (If you trade over company... it is taxed of course, profits in companies are taxed quite good in fact + heavy income tax). Which is surprising since we are heavy taxed on everything else, private or corp... I guess not many profitable traders for them to bother with this. At least for now So you see, NYC LLC would be for SIDE only At least in the beginning, we shall see later how it develops... to expand to other markets aside of FX spot... at which point it might be cheaper even.. But specially more convenient to have access to some brokers, providers, events, people, tools, you name it...

Some update...

Found interesting link/video about cons of forming in Delaware...
https://www.llcuniversity.com/delawa...c-in-delaware/
It seems interesting, but it doesn't mention PRIVACY... So it seems that forming in Delaware or other states that allow PRIVACYhttps://www.delawareinc.com/blog/wha...ords-delaware/
So it seems that might be major, if not only, advantage.. if one is doing business elsewhere (some other state)

Just found today reason to form a company for TRADING!
Was just informed by one major broker about lowering SPREADs... BTW This is a major broker that informed me about lowering leverage in Europe... before anyone else... even when I checked on webchat... others say they have no info about this... but this major broker informed me much in advance and was correct! Others informed me basically overnight... But I was reluctant to start with it at the time since they offered no negative balance protection, which I think it is always good to have since anything can happen, flashcrashes/events etc... But if I would have LLC in between, might be much better... So I found the reason... BTW seems Oanda doesn't provide any major advantages for corporate accounts... but might still connect to probably NYC LLC since I know it best (longest time) and than might add this major broker... This lower spreads are very attractive... So found my reason... WIll not trade privately for a while and shall see about this LLC forming till the end of the year...

So I hope we covered some basics... for other, you should google or ask here.. if you can't find or are not sure.. When in doubt, it is better to select some established company that takes care of this, but you would need to know what your main objective is for doing this... Ussually the better the PRos.. you hire, ussualy at some higher costs and the more legit you want to be, meaning pay more taxes.. the less you have to focus on this and just trade And I think some simple LLC might offer all you need... Once your profits can so big that your tax concern you, you can always hire better consultants to optimise this... Ok I think we covered some good basics...

Will inform you how formic LLC went, if all goes well and I decide (final confirmation) to proceed with it... And if anyone is interested about this... Would not disclose all the details because I love privacy but at least some general guidelines if anyone is interested...

BTW anyone already have LLC for the purpose of (prop) trading? Why you opted for this and what set-up (and consulting/service maybe) have you used to make it simple and compliant? I am just looking for basic (NYC) LLC (would also do Elsewhere, if there would be a GOOD reason, PRIVACY is a big thing to me of course, but that can be set in another way also) with simple/reliable broker to open corporate account and to have some template/simple/tested tax-setup to report taxes as easily and straightforward as possible... Best would be to automatically export trading history to to also tested/reliable online accounting software (for companies) and that's it... Pay the taxes and GTFO No drama/sniffing please, rather pay more

So unless anyone have any questions that would be all from my side at least... Until I open it and go complete circle.. make trades, profits, taxes, get it clearance that all is good and I can spend what is left

Ok not sure how many people are following this, but there are nice options in US about the CORP.. Just the Love the CORP man..
It seems it is even better option S-corp that is... Didn't want to post links, make promo.. but seems best setup would be to have LLC+S-CORP..
LLC for assets (protection) and S-corp to lower taxes But S-corps seems to be available to residents only...

I found those two clips very appealing




BTW, anyone know about good LLC/Corp set-up up prop trading? Yeah, anyone could do, but I'm inclined towards established places, like NYC, still But yeah, for bigger money Again, I found two basic benefits, forming comp for (prop) trading (in US)... One is this asset-protection since some brokers do not provide "neg balance protection". Second is, VISA, if you need it... People talked about this compliance issues... etc.. I think there are some cases when it would be good... Also! For more REAL trading... some brokers/banks do not accept individuals... by "default".. only institutions.. and you basically have no means to bypass this... Also some events... Let me tell you, it is good to have some company, if you want to be a player or at least explore some options

I suggest anyone to cross-check like: "benefits of incorporating in X state" and "don't incorporate in X state" and than compare... PROS and CONS... And also... as always almost... the less money one is willing to spend on PROs to help him... the more PRO he has to become himself... I myself would rather pay some PROs that have experience, drill/skill on how to set proper set-up that is iron-clad, fool-proof.. That is why I prefer NYC etc... because I am sure the thing that I am looking for has been tested like a million times from IRS, to courts and there are some rather cheap solutions/templates... Just want one simple company+bank account+credit card+broker account+accounting setup and just do trading.. and do not bother with the rest.. Know many people who think about saving cents for the whole day.. and yeah, forgot trading at the end I myself prefer to TRADE and let others do this routine/bureaucracy...

But no final conclusions have been made as of now... We shall see how trading goes, rather soon, and then the next logical step would be to get some PRO opinion about how to set it right.. But one has to have some idea.. I do plan to prop trade, that's it... with as little hassle as possible... TRADE, SPEND/INVEST, repeat The rest of the things would rather use some well tested setup... and thats it... To be continued, maybe... If anyone is interested anyway...

Ok a quick update... It seems the C-Corp might be exactly what I was looking for! OVERALL... Yeah I know S corp-LLC combo seems to be the best deal eva... as some say (tax/protection wise)... But when I checked ALL the things, OVERALL... It seems that with the C-corp ALL is RIGHT, at least for me... So that would be all, from my side, since no one has any questions... But I just wanted to make a quick update... Would advise to anyone to see the whole picture... WHOLE picture... that was tested in the sands of time... not just on paper.. but everywhere... Can not explain more atm but just check everything yourself, do not disregard some options just because someone said so... (real) C CORP for me, definitely... or better trade privately BTW, might have some LLC on the side also, but for main (operation).... Love the C CORP man...

Holy... just missed one epic post... Anyone remembers the guy that just posted and seemed to deleted the post afterwards? Was talking about Singapore setup?

A C-corp is probably the least efficient entity for taxes. Businesses usually only become C-corps when they absolutely have to... An LLC is most likely your best option.

i'll pm u directly.

Or in other words...
"How do you want your taxes?"
Answer: "Yes"