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  #44987  
Old Sep 30, 2009 8:29pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default !

Happy 3000th, Jim and crew. You guys rock.

See you on 4k.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
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  #44987  
Old Sep 30, 2009 8:29pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default !

Happy 3000th, Jim and crew. You guys rock.

See you on 4k.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #44987  
Old Sep 30, 2009 8:29pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default !

Happy 3000th, Jim and crew. You guys rock.

See you on 4k.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #44987  
Old Sep 30, 2009 8:29pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default !

Happy 3000th, Jim and crew. You guys rock.

See you on 4k.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45011  
Old Sep 30, 2009 10:28pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Thanks - and remember - I am just an idiot with an Internet connection. Now, Joelcf -he is smart and funny, and a damn sight better looking too!! This place is chock full of attractive people - I am the counter weight to all that pulchritude...
I'm just an idiot with two internet connections. Makes me seem twice as good as I actually am
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
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  #45015  
Old Oct 1, 2009 3:04am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjeff View Post
wow..
how are they charging for internet lately...
my parents & sister are always complaining...
My 21mbps adsl2+ is 80 a month for 60gb+140gb (peak+offpeak). Also have a backup account on a second phone line which costs like $30/m, but doesnt come with much data. Mainly used by the girlfriend for skype when I am, uh, acquiring television programmes. Only had to use it twice so far for trading, but it has paid for itself

The other one is a wireless card so I can internet about on the train (and trade at work ), plus disaster recovery - 6gb is about $40 a month.

(I also pay $12/mo for 1gb data on my cellphone)

pretty sure those are all about standard - more for telstra, less for Kolonel Krazy Klarks Internet.



nowhere near as bad as it used to be - I remember paying like $48 a month for dialup (!) a few years back, then $80/m for 512k ADSL when it first came out.

Apparently I can get a full T1 line for around $350/mo and a bloomberg terminal for $1500...

*edit* or just wait for neighbourhood fibre
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.

Last edited by joelcf, Oct 1, 2009 3:42am
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  #45011  
Old Sep 30, 2009 10:28pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Thanks - and remember - I am just an idiot with an Internet connection. Now, Joelcf -he is smart and funny, and a damn sight better looking too!! This place is chock full of attractive people - I am the counter weight to all that pulchritude...
I'm just an idiot with two internet connections. Makes me seem twice as good as I actually am
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45015  
Old Oct 1, 2009 3:04am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjeff View Post
wow..
how are they charging for internet lately...
my parents & sister are always complaining...
My 21mbps adsl2+ is 80 a month for 60gb+140gb (peak+offpeak). Also have a backup account on a second phone line which costs like $30/m, but doesnt come with much data. Mainly used by the girlfriend for skype when I am, uh, acquiring television programmes. Only had to use it twice so far for trading, but it has paid for itself

The other one is a wireless card so I can internet about on the train (and trade at work ), plus disaster recovery - 6gb is about $40 a month.

(I also pay $12/mo for 1gb data on my cellphone)

pretty sure those are all about standard - more for telstra, less for Kolonel Krazy Klarks Internet.



nowhere near as bad as it used to be - I remember paying like $48 a month for dialup (!) a few years back, then $80/m for 512k ADSL when it first came out.

Apparently I can get a full T1 line for around $350/mo and a bloomberg terminal for $1500...

*edit* or just wait for neighbourhood fibre
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.

Last edited by joelcf, Oct 1, 2009 3:42am
Reply With Quote
  #45011  
Old Sep 30, 2009 10:28pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Thanks - and remember - I am just an idiot with an Internet connection. Now, Joelcf -he is smart and funny, and a damn sight better looking too!! This place is chock full of attractive people - I am the counter weight to all that pulchritude...
I'm just an idiot with two internet connections. Makes me seem twice as good as I actually am
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45015  
Old Oct 1, 2009 3:04am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjeff View Post
wow..
how are they charging for internet lately...
my parents & sister are always complaining...
My 21mbps adsl2+ is 80 a month for 60gb+140gb (peak+offpeak). Also have a backup account on a second phone line which costs like $30/m, but doesnt come with much data. Mainly used by the girlfriend for skype when I am, uh, acquiring television programmes. Only had to use it twice so far for trading, but it has paid for itself

The other one is a wireless card so I can internet about on the train (and trade at work ), plus disaster recovery - 6gb is about $40 a month.

(I also pay $12/mo for 1gb data on my cellphone)

pretty sure those are all about standard - more for telstra, less for Kolonel Krazy Klarks Internet.



nowhere near as bad as it used to be - I remember paying like $48 a month for dialup (!) a few years back, then $80/m for 512k ADSL when it first came out.

Apparently I can get a full T1 line for around $350/mo and a bloomberg terminal for $1500...

*edit* or just wait for neighbourhood fibre
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.

Last edited by joelcf, Oct 1, 2009 3:42am
Reply With Quote
  #45011  
Old Sep 30, 2009 10:28pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Thanks - and remember - I am just an idiot with an Internet connection. Now, Joelcf -he is smart and funny, and a damn sight better looking too!! This place is chock full of attractive people - I am the counter weight to all that pulchritude...
I'm just an idiot with two internet connections. Makes me seem twice as good as I actually am
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45015  
Old Oct 1, 2009 3:04am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyjeff View Post
wow..
how are they charging for internet lately...
my parents & sister are always complaining...
My 21mbps adsl2+ is 80 a month for 60gb+140gb (peak+offpeak). Also have a backup account on a second phone line which costs like $30/m, but doesnt come with much data. Mainly used by the girlfriend for skype when I am, uh, acquiring television programmes. Only had to use it twice so far for trading, but it has paid for itself

The other one is a wireless card so I can internet about on the train (and trade at work ), plus disaster recovery - 6gb is about $40 a month.

(I also pay $12/mo for 1gb data on my cellphone)

pretty sure those are all about standard - more for telstra, less for Kolonel Krazy Klarks Internet.



nowhere near as bad as it used to be - I remember paying like $48 a month for dialup (!) a few years back, then $80/m for 512k ADSL when it first came out.

Apparently I can get a full T1 line for around $350/mo and a bloomberg terminal for $1500...

*edit* or just wait for neighbourhood fibre
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.

Last edited by joelcf, Oct 1, 2009 3:42am
Reply With Quote
  #45019  
Old Oct 1, 2009 5:55am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasgas View Post
What do you guys think about this trade.
Very nice PB, location not so good, trade has been cought in range more or less for few days now. Overall trend is down.
What to do:

- Kill the trade in B/E ?
- Leave trade on and hope it breaks upper rezistance zone ? In that case mabey pull S/L under support zone (blue)

Regards,
sounds like you already know what to do.
__________________
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  #45019  
Old Oct 1, 2009 5:55am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasgas View Post
What do you guys think about this trade.
Very nice PB, location not so good, trade has been cought in range more or less for few days now. Overall trend is down.
What to do:

- Kill the trade in B/E ?
- Leave trade on and hope it breaks upper rezistance zone ? In that case mabey pull S/L under support zone (blue)

Regards,
sounds like you already know what to do.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45019  
Old Oct 1, 2009 5:55am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasgas View Post
What do you guys think about this trade.
Very nice PB, location not so good, trade has been cought in range more or less for few days now. Overall trend is down.
What to do:

- Kill the trade in B/E ?
- Leave trade on and hope it breaks upper rezistance zone ? In that case mabey pull S/L under support zone (blue)

Regards,
sounds like you already know what to do.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45019  
Old Oct 1, 2009 5:55am
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasgas View Post
What do you guys think about this trade.
Very nice PB, location not so good, trade has been cought in range more or less for few days now. Overall trend is down.
What to do:

- Kill the trade in B/E ?
- Leave trade on and hope it breaks upper rezistance zone ? In that case mabey pull S/L under support zone (blue)

Regards,
sounds like you already know what to do.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45085  
Old Oct 1, 2009 7:24pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikki View Post
Just keep in mind that by the time you read about it, it is too late to do anything with the information. Even worse, you will end up putting an order in at the end of the move and being liquidity for the guys closing their positions.

They dont exactly send out a press release saying 'hay guyz, we r gonna sell off SFr, get ur limit orders in!'
__________________
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  #45085  
Old Oct 1, 2009 7:24pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikki View Post
Just keep in mind that by the time you read about it, it is too late to do anything with the information. Even worse, you will end up putting an order in at the end of the move and being liquidity for the guys closing their positions.

They dont exactly send out a press release saying 'hay guyz, we r gonna sell off SFr, get ur limit orders in!'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
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  #45085  
Old Oct 1, 2009 7:24pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikki View Post
Just keep in mind that by the time you read about it, it is too late to do anything with the information. Even worse, you will end up putting an order in at the end of the move and being liquidity for the guys closing their positions.

They dont exactly send out a press release saying 'hay guyz, we r gonna sell off SFr, get ur limit orders in!'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45085  
Old Oct 1, 2009 7:24pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikki View Post
Just keep in mind that by the time you read about it, it is too late to do anything with the information. Even worse, you will end up putting an order in at the end of the move and being liquidity for the guys closing their positions.

They dont exactly send out a press release saying 'hay guyz, we r gonna sell off SFr, get ur limit orders in!'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45233  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:02pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
After about 4 years of looking in on the FF, I am saying goodbye.
That's a big loss to everyone here. Sad to see you go, I definitely learned alot for your stream-of-conciousness essays.

You also strike me as the last person in the world to make a rash, emotional decision so I can only assume that there are strong reasons behind it.

Make sure you drop in and say hi sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Will you be able to become a trader, living by your wits in the market? Probably not. That is just a statement of fact. This is a difficult business, and a precious few can do it. Get used to this fact and you'll be better for it.
I'm glad someone just came out and said it.

The last decade has seen a huge focus on 'DIY investing' and online trading, and the marketing machine from the huge retail brokerages (etrade et al) has convinced people that capital markets are a friendly place where amatuer investors can get Buffet-like returns, and stay-at-home mums can make a six figure income day trading.

It just aint happening.

Even if you can beat the ridiculous spreads, mammoth charges, the snails-pace information flow, scammy brokers, dodgy internet information, the vague and conflicting advice handed out by authors/newspapers/cabletv/etc and your own psych issues, you are jumping into a shark pond.

You arent 'playing the market' or 'trading currencies', you are competing against exceptionally smart, amazingly talented and ridiculously dedicated professional traders. And until you see them in action, you honestly have no idea what you are up against.

These guys wont just take your lunch money. They will push you down and beat you to death with your own wallet while scalping tickets to the action, selling your shoes on ebay and using your account to pay for lunch.

That's why all the top guys here focus on protecting their equity, not on chasing C- pins into traffic. You need as much of an edge as you can get - and A+++ setups are where you get that edge. Just by being here, you have given yourself a big start over the other 95% of retail traders - so why squander that?

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. Bring a nuke.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
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  #45238  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:49pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarroo View Post
This one is also in play. May get a retrace to the 143.00. Prove me wrong B**ch. sorry I mean Gbp/Jpy. lol.
Hope you realise you have just killed 'geppy' and created a new currency name.

'hey broker, i wanna short ten bitches at 143 flat'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
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  #45233  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:02pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
After about 4 years of looking in on the FF, I am saying goodbye.
That's a big loss to everyone here. Sad to see you go, I definitely learned alot for your stream-of-conciousness essays.

You also strike me as the last person in the world to make a rash, emotional decision so I can only assume that there are strong reasons behind it.

Make sure you drop in and say hi sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Will you be able to become a trader, living by your wits in the market? Probably not. That is just a statement of fact. This is a difficult business, and a precious few can do it. Get used to this fact and you'll be better for it.
I'm glad someone just came out and said it.

The last decade has seen a huge focus on 'DIY investing' and online trading, and the marketing machine from the huge retail brokerages (etrade et al) has convinced people that capital markets are a friendly place where amatuer investors can get Buffet-like returns, and stay-at-home mums can make a six figure income day trading.

It just aint happening.

Even if you can beat the ridiculous spreads, mammoth charges, the snails-pace information flow, scammy brokers, dodgy internet information, the vague and conflicting advice handed out by authors/newspapers/cabletv/etc and your own psych issues, you are jumping into a shark pond.

You arent 'playing the market' or 'trading currencies', you are competing against exceptionally smart, amazingly talented and ridiculously dedicated professional traders. And until you see them in action, you honestly have no idea what you are up against.

These guys wont just take your lunch money. They will push you down and beat you to death with your own wallet while scalping tickets to the action, selling your shoes on ebay and using your account to pay for lunch.

That's why all the top guys here focus on protecting their equity, not on chasing C- pins into traffic. You need as much of an edge as you can get - and A+++ setups are where you get that edge. Just by being here, you have given yourself a big start over the other 95% of retail traders - so why squander that?

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. Bring a nuke.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45238  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:49pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarroo View Post
This one is also in play. May get a retrace to the 143.00. Prove me wrong B**ch. sorry I mean Gbp/Jpy. lol.
Hope you realise you have just killed 'geppy' and created a new currency name.

'hey broker, i wanna short ten bitches at 143 flat'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45233  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:02pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
After about 4 years of looking in on the FF, I am saying goodbye.
That's a big loss to everyone here. Sad to see you go, I definitely learned alot for your stream-of-conciousness essays.

You also strike me as the last person in the world to make a rash, emotional decision so I can only assume that there are strong reasons behind it.

Make sure you drop in and say hi sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Will you be able to become a trader, living by your wits in the market? Probably not. That is just a statement of fact. This is a difficult business, and a precious few can do it. Get used to this fact and you'll be better for it.
I'm glad someone just came out and said it.

The last decade has seen a huge focus on 'DIY investing' and online trading, and the marketing machine from the huge retail brokerages (etrade et al) has convinced people that capital markets are a friendly place where amatuer investors can get Buffet-like returns, and stay-at-home mums can make a six figure income day trading.

It just aint happening.

Even if you can beat the ridiculous spreads, mammoth charges, the snails-pace information flow, scammy brokers, dodgy internet information, the vague and conflicting advice handed out by authors/newspapers/cabletv/etc and your own psych issues, you are jumping into a shark pond.

You arent 'playing the market' or 'trading currencies', you are competing against exceptionally smart, amazingly talented and ridiculously dedicated professional traders. And until you see them in action, you honestly have no idea what you are up against.

These guys wont just take your lunch money. They will push you down and beat you to death with your own wallet while scalping tickets to the action, selling your shoes on ebay and using your account to pay for lunch.

That's why all the top guys here focus on protecting their equity, not on chasing C- pins into traffic. You need as much of an edge as you can get - and A+++ setups are where you get that edge. Just by being here, you have given yourself a big start over the other 95% of retail traders - so why squander that?

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. Bring a nuke.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45238  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:49pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarroo View Post
This one is also in play. May get a retrace to the 143.00. Prove me wrong B**ch. sorry I mean Gbp/Jpy. lol.
Hope you realise you have just killed 'geppy' and created a new currency name.

'hey broker, i wanna short ten bitches at 143 flat'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45233  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:02pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
After about 4 years of looking in on the FF, I am saying goodbye.
That's a big loss to everyone here. Sad to see you go, I definitely learned alot for your stream-of-conciousness essays.

You also strike me as the last person in the world to make a rash, emotional decision so I can only assume that there are strong reasons behind it.

Make sure you drop in and say hi sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoragePro View Post
Will you be able to become a trader, living by your wits in the market? Probably not. That is just a statement of fact. This is a difficult business, and a precious few can do it. Get used to this fact and you'll be better for it.
I'm glad someone just came out and said it.

The last decade has seen a huge focus on 'DIY investing' and online trading, and the marketing machine from the huge retail brokerages (etrade et al) has convinced people that capital markets are a friendly place where amatuer investors can get Buffet-like returns, and stay-at-home mums can make a six figure income day trading.

It just aint happening.

Even if you can beat the ridiculous spreads, mammoth charges, the snails-pace information flow, scammy brokers, dodgy internet information, the vague and conflicting advice handed out by authors/newspapers/cabletv/etc and your own psych issues, you are jumping into a shark pond.

You arent 'playing the market' or 'trading currencies', you are competing against exceptionally smart, amazingly talented and ridiculously dedicated professional traders. And until you see them in action, you honestly have no idea what you are up against.

These guys wont just take your lunch money. They will push you down and beat you to death with your own wallet while scalping tickets to the action, selling your shoes on ebay and using your account to pay for lunch.

That's why all the top guys here focus on protecting their equity, not on chasing C- pins into traffic. You need as much of an edge as you can get - and A+++ setups are where you get that edge. Just by being here, you have given yourself a big start over the other 95% of retail traders - so why squander that?

Dont bring a knife to a gunfight. Bring a nuke.
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45238  
Old Oct 4, 2009 8:49pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarroo View Post
This one is also in play. May get a retrace to the 143.00. Prove me wrong B**ch. sorry I mean Gbp/Jpy. lol.
Hope you realise you have just killed 'geppy' and created a new currency name.

'hey broker, i wanna short ten bitches at 143 flat'
__________________
It's all about the Hamiltons, baby.
Reply With Quote
  #45348  
Old Oct 6, 2009 4:59pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
Hi guys .

Here is a killer trade that I ve made today

Get stopped out where the green box is. Bad luck

In moments like this I always yell : thanks James, Mike and all of you who show me that method.
Fairly sure James and Mike would warn you about the perils of trading tiny 5m poodle pinbars following multiple huge consecutive bearish bars without divergence or a ppz bounce.

Glad you banked some pips, buddy
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  #45350  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:03pm
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My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbatu View Post
So from the definition above, I supposed my trade was canceled because at the time the price reach my sell target, the spread was more than 35pips which is more than my stoploss range. Can we check back the spread during that particular time? Or anyone can confirm that?
They are saying that when your order went to execute, the market+spread had already moved to your SL before they could fill it.

Happens in fast markets with tight stops.

Not sure about Oanda, but most charting packages let you plot the bid/ask rather than just the bid... maybe give that a shot and see if they were especially wide?
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  #45354  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:14pm
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My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
most importantly my demo account lol.
lol, in that case - nice trade
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  #45356  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:41pm
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Member Since Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemac View Post
DemoTrade = Willing to Fail Trade. What kind of Training is that?.Get Real or Get Out. Now. Before you lose your Real Money.
.
In all fairness, he did say that he had never traded the 5m and just wanted to see what it was like.
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  #45348  
Old Oct 6, 2009 4:59pm
joelcf's Avatar
My gun control is a steady hand.
 
Member Since Jun 2009
More than 10 Vouchers  341 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
Hi guys .

Here is a killer trade that I ve made today

Get stopped out where the green box is. Bad luck

In moments like this I always yell : thanks James, Mike and all of you who show me that method.
Fairly sure James and Mike would warn you about the perils of trading tiny 5m poodle pinbars following multiple huge consecutive bearish bars without divergence or a ppz bounce.

Glad you banked some pips, buddy
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  #45350  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbatu View Post
So from the definition above, I supposed my trade was canceled because at the time the price reach my sell target, the spread was more than 35pips which is more than my stoploss range. Can we check back the spread during that particular time? Or anyone can confirm that?
They are saying that when your order went to execute, the market+spread had already moved to your SL before they could fill it.

Happens in fast markets with tight stops.

Not sure about Oanda, but most charting packages let you plot the bid/ask rather than just the bid... maybe give that a shot and see if they were especially wide?
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  #45354  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
most importantly my demo account lol.
lol, in that case - nice trade
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  #45356  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemac View Post
DemoTrade = Willing to Fail Trade. What kind of Training is that?.Get Real or Get Out. Now. Before you lose your Real Money.
.
In all fairness, he did say that he had never traded the 5m and just wanted to see what it was like.
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  #45348  
Old Oct 6, 2009 4:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
Hi guys .

Here is a killer trade that I ve made today

Get stopped out where the green box is. Bad luck

In moments like this I always yell : thanks James, Mike and all of you who show me that method.
Fairly sure James and Mike would warn you about the perils of trading tiny 5m poodle pinbars following multiple huge consecutive bearish bars without divergence or a ppz bounce.

Glad you banked some pips, buddy
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  #45350  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbatu View Post
So from the definition above, I supposed my trade was canceled because at the time the price reach my sell target, the spread was more than 35pips which is more than my stoploss range. Can we check back the spread during that particular time? Or anyone can confirm that?
They are saying that when your order went to execute, the market+spread had already moved to your SL before they could fill it.

Happens in fast markets with tight stops.

Not sure about Oanda, but most charting packages let you plot the bid/ask rather than just the bid... maybe give that a shot and see if they were especially wide?
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  #45354  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
most importantly my demo account lol.
lol, in that case - nice trade
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  #45356  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemac View Post
DemoTrade = Willing to Fail Trade. What kind of Training is that?.Get Real or Get Out. Now. Before you lose your Real Money.
.
In all fairness, he did say that he had never traded the 5m and just wanted to see what it was like.
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  #45348  
Old Oct 6, 2009 4:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
Hi guys .

Here is a killer trade that I ve made today

Get stopped out where the green box is. Bad luck

In moments like this I always yell : thanks James, Mike and all of you who show me that method.
Fairly sure James and Mike would warn you about the perils of trading tiny 5m poodle pinbars following multiple huge consecutive bearish bars without divergence or a ppz bounce.

Glad you banked some pips, buddy
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  #45350  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbatu View Post
So from the definition above, I supposed my trade was canceled because at the time the price reach my sell target, the spread was more than 35pips which is more than my stoploss range. Can we check back the spread during that particular time? Or anyone can confirm that?
They are saying that when your order went to execute, the market+spread had already moved to your SL before they could fill it.

Happens in fast markets with tight stops.

Not sure about Oanda, but most charting packages let you plot the bid/ask rather than just the bid... maybe give that a shot and see if they were especially wide?
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  #45354  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atton View Post
most importantly my demo account lol.
lol, in that case - nice trade
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  #45356  
Old Oct 6, 2009 5:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemac View Post
DemoTrade = Willing to Fail Trade. What kind of Training is that?.Get Real or Get Out. Now. Before you lose your Real Money.
.
In all fairness, he did say that he had never traded the 5m and just wanted to see what it was like.
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  #45482  
Old Oct 7, 2009 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tormo View Post
I was short USDCHF and had a TP at 1.0284.

Price went below my TP and had hit low of 1.02832

Why was the TP not activated, does their need to be 1 pips difference the TP and price?
Are you looking at the bid or the ask? I suspect that might be where your issue lies.
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  #45482  
Old Oct 7, 2009 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tormo View Post
I was short USDCHF and had a TP at 1.0284.

Price went below my TP and had hit low of 1.02832

Why was the TP not activated, does their need to be 1 pips difference the TP and price?
Are you looking at the bid or the ask? I suspect that might be where your issue lies.
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  #45482  
Old Oct 7, 2009 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tormo View Post
I was short USDCHF and had a TP at 1.0284.

Price went below my TP and had hit low of 1.02832

Why was the TP not activated, does their need to be 1 pips difference the TP and price?
Are you looking at the bid or the ask? I suspect that might be where your issue lies.
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  #45482  
Old Oct 7, 2009 11:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tormo View Post
I was short USDCHF and had a TP at 1.0284.

Price went below my TP and had hit low of 1.02832

Why was the TP not activated, does their need to be 1 pips difference the TP and price?
Are you looking at the bid or the ask? I suspect that might be where your issue lies.
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  #45526  
Old Oct 8, 2009 8:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbqb11 View Post
I usually give these numbers as a basis.

Weekly 20-40
Daily 10-30
4hr 10-20
1hr 8-15
I went to the trouble of calculating average ranges for each timeframe, and trying to determine a movement 'threshold' based on average volatility that would indicate a break, not just random noise... and it ended up being almost exactly what mike said.

Just goes to show - putting effort in is a waste of time

(fwiw, i never go below 5 pips, even on the 15m)
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  #45526  
Old Oct 8, 2009 8:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbqb11 View Post
I usually give these numbers as a basis.

Weekly 20-40
Daily 10-30
4hr 10-20
1hr 8-15
I went to the trouble of calculating average ranges for each timeframe, and trying to determine a movement 'threshold' based on average volatility that would indicate a break, not just random noise... and it ended up being almost exactly what mike said.

Just goes to show - putting effort in is a waste of time

(fwiw, i never go below 5 pips, even on the 15m)
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  #45544  
Old Oct 9, 2009 1:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
my wife is scared to death some crazy person is going to lose all there money and come after me and/or our family. think about it. i think in todays world she has a point.
It's a truly stupid person who tries to go after a texan on their own property

JIm, you have really been one of the best teachers I have ever come across. As I am sure everyone else will echo, I cant thank you enough for opening my eyes.

And they were pretty firmly wedged closed
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  #45549  
Old Oct 9, 2009 2:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
i had no idea that this was known outside of the US.
lol - CCW, Class III/IV weapons and the Castle Doctrine?

Everybody knows that 'dont mess with texas' isnt just a slogan
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  #45526  
Old Oct 8, 2009 8:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbqb11 View Post
I usually give these numbers as a basis.

Weekly 20-40
Daily 10-30
4hr 10-20
1hr 8-15
I went to the trouble of calculating average ranges for each timeframe, and trying to determine a movement 'threshold' based on average volatility that would indicate a break, not just random noise... and it ended up being almost exactly what mike said.

Just goes to show - putting effort in is a waste of time

(fwiw, i never go below 5 pips, even on the 15m)
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  #45544  
Old Oct 9, 2009 1:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
my wife is scared to death some crazy person is going to lose all there money and come after me and/or our family. think about it. i think in todays world she has a point.
It's a truly stupid person who tries to go after a texan on their own property

JIm, you have really been one of the best teachers I have ever come across. As I am sure everyone else will echo, I cant thank you enough for opening my eyes.

And they were pretty firmly wedged closed
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  #45549  
Old Oct 9, 2009 2:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
i had no idea that this was known outside of the US.
lol - CCW, Class III/IV weapons and the Castle Doctrine?

Everybody knows that 'dont mess with texas' isnt just a slogan
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  #45544  
Old Oct 9, 2009 1:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
my wife is scared to death some crazy person is going to lose all there money and come after me and/or our family. think about it. i think in todays world she has a point.
It's a truly stupid person who tries to go after a texan on their own property

JIm, you have really been one of the best teachers I have ever come across. As I am sure everyone else will echo, I cant thank you enough for opening my eyes.

And they were pretty firmly wedged closed
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  #45549  
Old Oct 9, 2009 2:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james16 View Post
i had no idea that this was known outside of the US.
lol - CCW, Class III/IV weapons and the Castle Doctrine?

Everybody knows that 'dont mess with texas' isnt just a slogan
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  #45865  
Old Oct 12, 2009 8:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermatt View Post
i havnt been using divergence but maybe i should add that to my trading?
i kind of wanted no indicators but i guess it could be useful?
I use it in conjunction with double/triple tops and anytime I am looking at a reversal - not much more though. It lends a bit of weight to a situation where you expect a trend to reverse (pin at a swing high, for instance), but it is just a small factor.

People that try to make an entire system out of divergence and crosses are... well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou View Post
How come someone who is pushing 50 is somehow identified by having bags under the eyes?
I imagine it is because they generally have to stay up late every night writing letters of complaint about things that annoyed them during the day - rap music, teenagers with piercings, suspicious-looking birds, etc.
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  #45870  
Old Oct 12, 2009 9:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
Just wondering if you seen my last post Joel, specifically the bit concerning betting for and against a certain currency, literally using it as a 'middleman' to save on spreads... is there any validity it this or is it completely nonsensical?
Sorry, I probably missed it - been snowed under with work, so I am about eight thousand pages behind everyone else. This thread moves too damn fast

*searches*

It's definitely feasible to construct your own artificial cross when the spreads get out of line. It's probably one of the only good reasons to do it (the other being a triangular arbitrage situation).

In theory, you should get the same median price in the end...but the problem you could run into (in the short term, anyways) is that your basket might not behave the same way as the one you are trying to replicate - especially on lightly traded pairs and during low liquidity periods. It should move back in line eventually (anywhere between seconds and minutes), but it can kinda suck if it happens to be at the time you want to exit.

Alot of the times, the slippage will screw you over too, depending on your broker and the speed of the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
As long as you get in on the two currencies, x/z and z/y, at the same time, it seems to have the same effect as entering on the x/y pair at that time, which would seem logical. This is just based on non-detailed observation. There definitely could be variable factors involved.
Nope, that's exactly how you would do it. Just make sure you are looking at the right prices - mixing up bids and asks can quickly kill any edge you were going for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
Pity about that awful 20 pip spread my brokers got... honestly, AUD/USD is 3 pips and NZD/USD is 6 pips...whats the deal!?!
So, in this case, you have AUDUSD and NZDUSD, and you want to end up with AUDNZD (long AUD, short NZD for our recently tuned in listeners)... so you want to be long AUDUSD (giving you a/u) and short NZDUSD (giving you u/n)

A/U x U/N = AU/UN = long A/N

obv, if you wanted to short the AUDNZD pair, you want to end up with NZDAUD (ie, long NZD), so you need to short audusd (giving you a u/a) and long nzdusd (giving you n/u)

U/A x N/U = UN/AU = N/A

Unfortunately, that is the easy part. The hard part is ensuring that you are *actually* cancelling the USD out of the trade. You always buy/sell in units of the base currency (pairs are base/quote, so, in audusd you are long one AUD and short .9100 USD).

So, say we want to end up long audnzd. We want end up in a position where we have bought 1 aud and sold x nzd.
We buy one unit of audusd, giving us a short position of y usd
To cancel that, we need to buy y units of usd, leaving us short x units of nzd in return. We are doing this with a short NZDUSD.

To work out what our position size in N/U is, remember that we work in units of the base. So, we need to use usd as the base to work out how many contracts to sell to get our y USD.

Our position size will be (1/nzdusd) x y USD
....

or, to make it more tangible, since stuff never makes sense to me unless I use real numbers.

Current audusd = 0.9071
Current nzdusd = 0.7365

Say we want to go long 1000 units of audnzd.
Buy 1000 a/u @ .9071, we get 1000 aud and -907.1 usd
So we need to buy 907.1 units USD, selling NZD in return.
We know that 1 NZD will buy us 0.7365 USD, so dividing by 1...
1/0.7365 = 1.3577 (ie, for every USD, we need to sell 1.3577 NZD)
So all that remains is to find out how many units we need to sell to get our 907.1 USD
907.1 usd required * 1.3577 nzd per usd = 1231.63 units
We sell 1231(ish) units n/u @ 0.7365, which gives us -1231 nzd and +907.1 usd.

end result: 1000 units aud, -1231 nzd and our USD positions cancel out...

For an ending audnzd rate of 1.231 (current rate is 1.2318, but i was lazy with decimals)

....

Hope that gave you a headache... now do it again using bid/ask prices

As you can see, you will need to tweak your position sizing a bit, but nothing a spreadsheet cant handle. The bigger problem is that you are going to need to use double the margin that you normally would, since the broker wont net them for you like they (effectively) do when you just buy the cross.

---------

That spread seems retarded, but it really depends when you grabbed it. AUDNZD is so thinly traded in the sunday session that 25 pips isnt unheard of.

I generally get around 5pips spread on IB for it, from memory, though it can broaden out a little during the weekend (as expected) or in news sessions.

Looking on the Oanda webpage, they claim that their spread is about 7 pips at the moment, which seems pretty decent. But their last 7 days history shows some really huge spikes.

Click image for larger version

Name:	spread2_AUD_NZD.png
Views:	27
Size:	21.4 KB
ID:	335062

(i dont really trade audnzd because it is choppy as hell)
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 13, 2009 12:11am
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  #45877  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teodosy87 View Post
This is an example of what does every chart should look like.
1.Important PPZ
2.The PIN
3.The money
This might look good in hindsight, but I wouldnt have passed on this one (as a pinbar, anyways).

The pin is tiny compared to the preceeding bars, and barely protrudes from the previous bar (which is also a failed pin-esque bar). These will very often fail.

There are also a bunch of MAs - one as possible resistance, one as possible support - but without knowing what they are, you cant really assign significance. It seems to be bouncing off a midterm one (200?), which is a good thing. But price was heading straight into the blue one (which I assume is shorter term - 150? - due to its responsiveness) and a big round number.

Very nice PPZ, decentish location, bad bar. Pass from me.

As a doubletop off a PPZ and (possibly) a round number, it looks nice and offers some pretty sweet r:R played down to that first support level. Some divergence would also make me a bit more likely to fire off a few rounds... but you have stochastics there, which I have never really found all that useful.

Looks like something mark would have been all over.

Results oriented thinking is a killer. Just because it looks good in hindsight doesnt mean it would have beed a good trade.
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 12, 2009 11:22pm
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  #45878  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
I've got a friend working in a prop trading house.

This is actually one of the things they're experimenting with.

They're trying to program an algo to find oppty for when the underlying and the synthetic pairs go out of sync and then line up orders in the actual interbank market so that they can get in at a better than bid-ask price.
Theoretically it's an arbitrage situation.
This is probably the best known arbitrage situation out there, and is actively exploited by pretty much every big arb player in the business - that's why prices dont really get out of line for more than a few seconds... I think 14 seconds is about the average, up to a couple of minutes for lightly traded pairs during news time in low liquidty sessions.

they are the ones who keep our markets nice and efficient

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
(disclaimer: that's what he told me. I know jack all about getting better than bid-ask. I always thought those were limit orders but apparently in the actual inter-bank queue, there's what they call "the ladder" of 10 bids and asks and sometimes, u get better than bid-ask by some dude who really wants out if you Q in the bid/ask. makes sense...but I've yet to verify it)
If you are trading through an ECN, you will generally get a form of levelII for dealing (though it will probably just be your broker, so not really a true LII screen... although whether that is any better, with all the dark pools, baiting/ghosting and so forth, is an entirely separate question), and will get a full five levels each way. You can definitely put orders inside the bid/ask and hope they get picked up...but so can everyone else.

Name:  unt.png
Views: 469
Size:  5.0 KB

(this poorly conceived screengrab doesnt actually show a gap betweent he b/a, but anyways.. you get the idea. imagine that there was, and you put an order in there, lol )

Good luck to them, they must be some pretty damn smart people. HFT is pretty hardcore, the guys I know in the field absolutely amaze me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
So there can be differences btw the actual and synthetic pairs and yield that extra 1 or 2 pips of "alpha". (whatever that is)
Excess return over the portfolio risk adjusted return
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 12, 2009 11:51pm Reason: artwork.
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  #45880  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiaForex View Post
Jim has put a lot of thought into teaching a method that allows you to still be in the game a year after you start. Staying above water in the early days is the key IMO. Because then everything settles in naturally. But if you're overleveraging and rushing, the tragedy is that you may not be around to see that stage of the learning curve.

Don't worry about small returns. Compounding and adding in is a small miracle.

The rewards of this business are huge. Huge. Be kind to yourself and give yourself the chance to achieve them.
People need to read this post again.

Aaron is like an eloquent, condensed version of everything you need to get from this thread, and most of the pf too.

In person form.

Presumably.
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  #45883  
Old Oct 13, 2009 12:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travpip View Post
i can tell the thread is full of gold but a little daunting when trying to jump on board for the ride.
i kind of started at page 1 and i was now working my way back from page 3054.
I best work my way through the first 100 odd pages then....
It seems daunting, but..

Its 3000 pages, with alot of filler (some of it my fault!). On average, it takes me about 2 mins to read a page - some might take ten mins, some might take 30 seconds... but it averages out to about 2 mins.

2m x 3000 = 100hrs
At a leisurely 5hrs per day, that's twenty evenings work.
Taking off weekends, that's a month. Of short, easy sessions.
Jim did this for 28 years.
...

Alternatively, 100 hours that will, at the very least, save your account.

For most people, that's $10/hr - $100/hr
For some, its $250/hr, $500/hr or even $1k/hr.

I sure as hell dont get paid $500/hr. Especially for working from home with a beer in my hand.


(and you dont even have to take that long. Cyrus has made some kickass summaries from all the first stringers here. Grab them, kick the wife/gf out for the night, take the phone off the hook and learn from the best)
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 13, 2009 1:06am
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  #45885  
Old Oct 13, 2009 12:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glyder View Post
I've not ventured very much outside of this thread on FF, but if its anything like TTW can be sometimes, I completely see what your point is.
To be honest, this thread is pretty much the only one I read on here, although I visit one other from time to time. Most of the time when I have been bored and exploring, I have ended up kneedeep in scammers selling some stupid system, 14yo kids who dont speak english but think their REVOLUTIONARY MA cross (we use the 17EMA and 322.697 SMA!) is going to make a trillion dollars and we should buy their ebook, or just some plain wtf methods that I dont even think are based on, uh, anything.

TTW is worse though. Its kind of like EliteTrader with Down's Syndrome and a bottle of bourbon. And ET is already full of morons and posers to begin with.

Everytime I read something there, the signal:noise is so tiny it is barely worth the effort. A bunch of guys talking about how they could completely be prop traders, but they make too much money trading private, or circlejerking over the latest backtesting seminar they went to.
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  #45895  
Old Oct 13, 2009 4:08am
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Originally Posted by b612 View Post
You can see a pro (John Carter) trading dow futures live using level II. (It is not an abritrage trade)
Pro seminar salesman, maybe
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  #45898  
Old Oct 13, 2009 4:51am
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Sure. But found it interesting for tarders that never saw this kind of trading platforms.
Im just being difficult

I completely agree with you - anyone who wants to move beyond the 'me see pointy bar - press butan!' stage and try to understand what is really happening should definitely watch some l2 price action sometime. It is a real eye opener.
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Old Oct 13, 2009 5:12am
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Amen to that Joel.

It's the kinda post that I wish I read a few years ago. Then again, probably wouldn't quite hit home then. LOL.

What's HTF btw?
High frequency trading, when I have only had one coffee for the day and cant type an acronym properly

http://www.economist.com/businessfin...ry_id=14133802
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  #45965  
Old Oct 13, 2009 7:33pm
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Originally Posted by NosferatuMan View Post
Don't know if this question was ever answered in this enormous thread, anyway:

-Is it possible to adjust something in MT4 to change the periods of the candles? In my case, the daily candle is not yet closed. I believe there is 2 hours difference from some of you.

I'm using a demo account in MT4 and I've tried both with IBFX and ODL.

Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately, there isnt any way to just shift time in the options. Probably because MT4 kinda sux, to be honest.

There is a script that people use for combining bars that can also shift them. I think its called periodcon.

Personally, it never worked that well for me. I'd just find a chart of someone with different bars to you, look at what broker they use and then open a practice account
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  #45969  
Old Oct 13, 2009 7:47pm
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Originally Posted by NosferatuMan View Post
And you download MT4 from the broker's website or you just find the srv file?

By the way, could any of you guys please tell me what is the best period for the candles? I think it is better to "watch" the same james, mike and the other experts are watching.
Just d/l MT4, a bunch of people here just run a couple of installs with different bar closes. I think SC runs 5, which is probably too much for my brain to concentrate on.

As for timeframes, I like the daily and the 4H... but will play on the 1H too, if it lines up with the higher timeframes. I trade the 15M in some specific circumstances, but those are pretty rare. Jim recommends/orders new traders to start on the dailies... and he knows what he is talking about.

Overall, for me anyways, I think the 4H is the best balance of responsiveness and noise-smoothing. As I said to someone the other day - ever noticed that your keyboard has the $ symbol above the 4? Not a coincidence
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  #45865  
Old Oct 12, 2009 8:36pm
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Originally Posted by supermatt View Post
i havnt been using divergence but maybe i should add that to my trading?
i kind of wanted no indicators but i guess it could be useful?
I use it in conjunction with double/triple tops and anytime I am looking at a reversal - not much more though. It lends a bit of weight to a situation where you expect a trend to reverse (pin at a swing high, for instance), but it is just a small factor.

People that try to make an entire system out of divergence and crosses are... well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou View Post
How come someone who is pushing 50 is somehow identified by having bags under the eyes?
I imagine it is because they generally have to stay up late every night writing letters of complaint about things that annoyed them during the day - rap music, teenagers with piercings, suspicious-looking birds, etc.
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Old Oct 12, 2009 9:18pm
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Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
Just wondering if you seen my last post Joel, specifically the bit concerning betting for and against a certain currency, literally using it as a 'middleman' to save on spreads... is there any validity it this or is it completely nonsensical?
Sorry, I probably missed it - been snowed under with work, so I am about eight thousand pages behind everyone else. This thread moves too damn fast

*searches*

It's definitely feasible to construct your own artificial cross when the spreads get out of line. It's probably one of the only good reasons to do it (the other being a triangular arbitrage situation).

In theory, you should get the same median price in the end...but the problem you could run into (in the short term, anyways) is that your basket might not behave the same way as the one you are trying to replicate - especially on lightly traded pairs and during low liquidity periods. It should move back in line eventually (anywhere between seconds and minutes), but it can kinda suck if it happens to be at the time you want to exit.

Alot of the times, the slippage will screw you over too, depending on your broker and the speed of the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
As long as you get in on the two currencies, x/z and z/y, at the same time, it seems to have the same effect as entering on the x/y pair at that time, which would seem logical. This is just based on non-detailed observation. There definitely could be variable factors involved.
Nope, that's exactly how you would do it. Just make sure you are looking at the right prices - mixing up bids and asks can quickly kill any edge you were going for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket! View Post
Pity about that awful 20 pip spread my brokers got... honestly, AUD/USD is 3 pips and NZD/USD is 6 pips...whats the deal!?!
So, in this case, you have AUDUSD and NZDUSD, and you want to end up with AUDNZD (long AUD, short NZD for our recently tuned in listeners)... so you want to be long AUDUSD (giving you a/u) and short NZDUSD (giving you u/n)

A/U x U/N = AU/UN = long A/N

obv, if you wanted to short the AUDNZD pair, you want to end up with NZDAUD (ie, long NZD), so you need to short audusd (giving you a u/a) and long nzdusd (giving you n/u)

U/A x N/U = UN/AU = N/A

Unfortunately, that is the easy part. The hard part is ensuring that you are *actually* cancelling the USD out of the trade. You always buy/sell in units of the base currency (pairs are base/quote, so, in audusd you are long one AUD and short .9100 USD).

So, say we want to end up long audnzd. We want end up in a position where we have bought 1 aud and sold x nzd.
We buy one unit of audusd, giving us a short position of y usd
To cancel that, we need to buy y units of usd, leaving us short x units of nzd in return. We are doing this with a short NZDUSD.

To work out what our position size in N/U is, remember that we work in units of the base. So, we need to use usd as the base to work out how many contracts to sell to get our y USD.

Our position size will be (1/nzdusd) x y USD
....

or, to make it more tangible, since stuff never makes sense to me unless I use real numbers.

Current audusd = 0.9071
Current nzdusd = 0.7365

Say we want to go long 1000 units of audnzd.
Buy 1000 a/u @ .9071, we get 1000 aud and -907.1 usd
So we need to buy 907.1 units USD, selling NZD in return.
We know that 1 NZD will buy us 0.7365 USD, so dividing by 1...
1/0.7365 = 1.3577 (ie, for every USD, we need to sell 1.3577 NZD)
So all that remains is to find out how many units we need to sell to get our 907.1 USD
907.1 usd required * 1.3577 nzd per usd = 1231.63 units
We sell 1231(ish) units n/u @ 0.7365, which gives us -1231 nzd and +907.1 usd.

end result: 1000 units aud, -1231 nzd and our USD positions cancel out...

For an ending audnzd rate of 1.231 (current rate is 1.2318, but i was lazy with decimals)

....

Hope that gave you a headache... now do it again using bid/ask prices

As you can see, you will need to tweak your position sizing a bit, but nothing a spreadsheet cant handle. The bigger problem is that you are going to need to use double the margin that you normally would, since the broker wont net them for you like they (effectively) do when you just buy the cross.

---------

That spread seems retarded, but it really depends when you grabbed it. AUDNZD is so thinly traded in the sunday session that 25 pips isnt unheard of.

I generally get around 5pips spread on IB for it, from memory, though it can broaden out a little during the weekend (as expected) or in news sessions.

Looking on the Oanda webpage, they claim that their spread is about 7 pips at the moment, which seems pretty decent. But their last 7 days history shows some really huge spikes.

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(i dont really trade audnzd because it is choppy as hell)
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  #45877  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:06pm
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Originally Posted by teodosy87 View Post
This is an example of what does every chart should look like.
1.Important PPZ
2.The PIN
3.The money
This might look good in hindsight, but I wouldnt have passed on this one (as a pinbar, anyways).

The pin is tiny compared to the preceeding bars, and barely protrudes from the previous bar (which is also a failed pin-esque bar). These will very often fail.

There are also a bunch of MAs - one as possible resistance, one as possible support - but without knowing what they are, you cant really assign significance. It seems to be bouncing off a midterm one (200?), which is a good thing. But price was heading straight into the blue one (which I assume is shorter term - 150? - due to its responsiveness) and a big round number.

Very nice PPZ, decentish location, bad bar. Pass from me.

As a doubletop off a PPZ and (possibly) a round number, it looks nice and offers some pretty sweet r:R played down to that first support level. Some divergence would also make me a bit more likely to fire off a few rounds... but you have stochastics there, which I have never really found all that useful.

Looks like something mark would have been all over.

Results oriented thinking is a killer. Just because it looks good in hindsight doesnt mean it would have beed a good trade.
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  #45878  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:13pm
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Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
I've got a friend working in a prop trading house.

This is actually one of the things they're experimenting with.

They're trying to program an algo to find oppty for when the underlying and the synthetic pairs go out of sync and then line up orders in the actual interbank market so that they can get in at a better than bid-ask price.
Theoretically it's an arbitrage situation.
This is probably the best known arbitrage situation out there, and is actively exploited by pretty much every big arb player in the business - that's why prices dont really get out of line for more than a few seconds... I think 14 seconds is about the average, up to a couple of minutes for lightly traded pairs during news time in low liquidty sessions.

they are the ones who keep our markets nice and efficient

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
(disclaimer: that's what he told me. I know jack all about getting better than bid-ask. I always thought those were limit orders but apparently in the actual inter-bank queue, there's what they call "the ladder" of 10 bids and asks and sometimes, u get better than bid-ask by some dude who really wants out if you Q in the bid/ask. makes sense...but I've yet to verify it)
If you are trading through an ECN, you will generally get a form of levelII for dealing (though it will probably just be your broker, so not really a true LII screen... although whether that is any better, with all the dark pools, baiting/ghosting and so forth, is an entirely separate question), and will get a full five levels each way. You can definitely put orders inside the bid/ask and hope they get picked up...but so can everyone else.

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(this poorly conceived screengrab doesnt actually show a gap betweent he b/a, but anyways.. you get the idea. imagine that there was, and you put an order in there, lol )

Good luck to them, they must be some pretty damn smart people. HFT is pretty hardcore, the guys I know in the field absolutely amaze me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
So there can be differences btw the actual and synthetic pairs and yield that extra 1 or 2 pips of "alpha". (whatever that is)
Excess return over the portfolio risk adjusted return
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  #45880  
Old Oct 12, 2009 11:57pm
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Originally Posted by TiaForex View Post
Jim has put a lot of thought into teaching a method that allows you to still be in the game a year after you start. Staying above water in the early days is the key IMO. Because then everything settles in naturally. But if you're overleveraging and rushing, the tragedy is that you may not be around to see that stage of the learning curve.

Don't worry about small returns. Compounding and adding in is a small miracle.

The rewards of this business are huge. Huge. Be kind to yourself and give yourself the chance to achieve them.
People need to read this post again.

Aaron is like an eloquent, condensed version of everything you need to get from this thread, and most of the pf too.

In person form.

Presumably.
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  #45883  
Old Oct 13, 2009 12:21am
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Originally Posted by travpip View Post
i can tell the thread is full of gold but a little daunting when trying to jump on board for the ride.
i kind of started at page 1 and i was now working my way back from page 3054.
I best work my way through the first 100 odd pages then....
It seems daunting, but..

Its 3000 pages, with alot of filler (some of it my fault!). On average, it takes me about 2 mins to read a page - some might take ten mins, some might take 30 seconds... but it averages out to about 2 mins.

2m x 3000 = 100hrs
At a leisurely 5hrs per day, that's twenty evenings work.
Taking off weekends, that's a month. Of short, easy sessions.
Jim did this for 28 years.
...

Alternatively, 100 hours that will, at the very least, save your account.

For most people, that's $10/hr - $100/hr
For some, its $250/hr, $500/hr or even $1k/hr.

I sure as hell dont get paid $500/hr. Especially for working from home with a beer in my hand.


(and you dont even have to take that long. Cyrus has made some kickass summaries from all the first stringers here. Grab them, kick the wife/gf out for the night, take the phone off the hook and learn from the best)
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  #45885  
Old Oct 13, 2009 12:34am
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Originally Posted by glyder View Post
I've not ventured very much outside of this thread on FF, but if its anything like TTW can be sometimes, I completely see what your point is.
To be honest, this thread is pretty much the only one I read on here, although I visit one other from time to time. Most of the time when I have been bored and exploring, I have ended up kneedeep in scammers selling some stupid system, 14yo kids who dont speak english but think their REVOLUTIONARY MA cross (we use the 17EMA and 322.697 SMA!) is going to make a trillion dollars and we should buy their ebook, or just some plain wtf methods that I dont even think are based on, uh, anything.

TTW is worse though. Its kind of like EliteTrader with Down's Syndrome and a bottle of bourbon. And ET is already full of morons and posers to begin with.

Everytime I read something there, the signal:noise is so tiny it is barely worth the effort. A bunch of guys talking about how they could completely be prop traders, but they make too much money trading private, or circlejerking over the latest backtesting seminar they went to.
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  #46067  
Old Oct 14, 2009 11:14pm
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Originally Posted by Flem26 View Post
I think these markets have changed dramatically from a liquidity perspective and in addition, I have gotten less aggressive, which is a good thing. The result: less trading, which bores me to tears, but saves the trading account. Alright who is with me?
Volume has decreased significantly from a year ago, but liquidity is fine. You arent trading a dry market. Look at the CME futures and options data, there is more than enough action in the currency markets during the US session.

Thing just arent as volatile, hence you arent seeing crazy swings (or as much of them, anyway).

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The setups are definitely there, they just arent there as often as they have been. And it isnt just me that is seeing them - strolling through the member journals on the PF, there are a bunch of people making a bunch of money off a bunch of setups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem26 View Post
... by the time I get up in the morning the main moves have been made. Once London is finished, the stupid currencies just seem to move with the manipulated US fraudexes
Get up earlier, if it is that important to you. Easy solution.

And as for 'stupid currencies moving with manipulated fraudexes', wow. Index manipulation, now?

Ignoring the tinfoil hat component of your rant, consider that maybe the currency markets are being driven by risk aversion at the moment - and so of course they are going to be correlated with index movements. They always have been. This is 'technicals' in its pure form, so I dont really know how you can claim that 'technicals' dont take over until the london session.

Plus, if you know that they are moving in tandem with something else, how are they not tradeable?

This is why most traders actually fail. Not because they have shitty money management (though that doesnt help) or because they lack discipline (though most do)... it is primarily because they cant shift gears and adapt to changing circumstances. They keep trying to use trend tools in flat markets, or range tools in trending markets.

There are a thousand ways to make money in this, and any, market climate. You need to sit back, have a couple of beers, relax a bit and look big picture.
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  #46070  
Old Oct 14, 2009 11:49pm
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Originally Posted by Flem26 View Post
Okay Dad . . .

Seriously, I appreciate your perspective. But let me ask you this: is the US Fed`s actions over the past year not blatant market manipulation
hey now, I'm not *that* old

It is manipulation of the money market, which is their job. Says it right there in the charter. They are supposed to manipulate market rates to smooth economic cycles. It isnt necessarily a bad thing, at all.

The entire idea was to make money cheaper, lowering the cost of capital and allowing more companies to engage in more projects and therefore be able to hire more people and buy more materials. Pretty decent response in the circumstances, I think. Most people agree.

They arent manipulating the DJI at all. No one is. Mainly because no one could afford to. Not even Scrooge McDuck. And he is the richest guy I know.

The strength you are seeing is coming from more companies making more money and more investors being more confident about putting more money into more equities.
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  #46073  
Old Oct 15, 2009 12:36am
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i want to know if this is considered a divergence?

i'm asking because i'm not looking at the 2 lows in between...does it still count? or the divergence has to be between 2 consecutive lows?
As with most things, the answer is 'sort of'.

Technically, 'divegence' is there - price is indeed diverging from the indicator at those two points.

However, the reason we look at divergence is to give some kind of indication as to short term momentum. If price is making new lows, but momentum is decreasing, then you could expect that a reversal is more likely than without that sign.

So, applying that to your chart - what is it telling us? It is saying that price has just made a big new low, and that momentum, as measured from the last move, is increasing.

What we arent seeing is price movement slowing from the last dip, which is what we would want to see if we planned on taking a reversal.

The fact that it is showing a divergence from some other point in the past isnt really all that important to me. I want to know what price is doing now, not what it was doing a few weeks ago

*edit* as usual, beaten by Mike
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  #46075  
Old Oct 15, 2009 1:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
in fairness, u had a lengthier post
The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do

to think I used to have that quote stuck to my monitor, lol. Clearly never sunk in.

I think we need to have some kind of sticky for divergence questions. I swear it comes up more often than anything else. Except for maybe 'do I really have to read 3000 pages?!', hehe.
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  #46079  
Old Oct 15, 2009 1:41am
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Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
let's just say simplism has been running through Mike's veins & is manifest with his posts
I suspect he has fibre running through his veins and straight to the ff and j16 servers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supermatt View Post
how bout just dont use div and focus on good bars at good locations?
But why not use it with good bars and good locations? It has its place, it is just that most people dont really understand what it is and how to use it.

I agree with the sentiment though - it's icing, not the cake itself.

There is a technical term for people that trade solely based on divergence - broke
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  #45895  
Old Oct 13, 2009 4:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b612 View Post
You can see a pro (John Carter) trading dow futures live using level II. (It is not an abritrage trade)
Pro seminar salesman, maybe
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Old Oct 13, 2009 4:51am
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Sure. But found it interesting for tarders that never saw this kind of trading platforms.
Im just being difficult

I completely agree with you - anyone who wants to move beyond the 'me see pointy bar - press butan!' stage and try to understand what is really happening should definitely watch some l2 price action sometime. It is a real eye opener.
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Old Oct 13, 2009 5:12am
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Amen to that Joel.

It's the kinda post that I wish I read a few years ago. Then again, probably wouldn't quite hit home then. LOL.

What's HTF btw?
High frequency trading, when I have only had one coffee for the day and cant type an acronym properly

http://www.economist.com/businessfin...ry_id=14133802
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  #46082  
Old Oct 15, 2009 2:43am
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agreed, since divergence is a lagging indicator. it only tells what happened in the past
like a pin bar or a ppz?
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  #46085  
Old Oct 15, 2009 4:20am
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Actually, if you think about it, everything except the next 1 tick is "the past".

Price action just kinda sums up the past X mins/hours/ (whatever timeframes) worth of data and places it into a graphical format on a price time axis.

Market prices statistically are a continuous function, not a discrete one (go look @ a level 2 screen, where does the bar start and end?) If you add leading lagging argument + the notion that markets are a probabilistic creature, then u get flucutating varieties of leading/lagging, continuous-discrete?? --> Confusion...
Very, very few people get this. Most, authors included, throw out the 'lagging indicator' thing pretty liberally, without much thought about what they are actually saying. What they should really be saying is that it gives out lagging signals, which is something entirely different. Unfortunately, this has been twisted into 'indicators are all lagging and therefore useless', when that really isnt the case.

I dont personally make much use of them, but when I see Jim/rac/ryan using TRIN, EMAs and MACD/div, then I know there must be something to them. (and dont fool yourself - people moving alot more money than all of us put together use indicators. that's the main reason they actually work.)

Even fewer people really know what a chart is, and so when they start trying to build 'systems', they are starting from a shaky foundation. The lack of a fundamental understanding of markets and market structure means that most people are just wasting their time (at best) when they start building and testing systems based on derivitives of price. At worst, they are coming to flawed conclusions because they are basing their work on flawed premises.

To throw out an analogy, I dont know how a microwave works. And that's fine, as long as I just want to use it to heat up my lunch. I can even get really good at heating up my lunch. But, should I announce that I plan to use my limited knowledge to build a better microwave... y'all should run the opposite way. Fast.

See: the guy that tried convincing me that he could make money by shorting when the spread widened. lol.

Im glad someone here gets it
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 15, 2009 5:03am
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  #46087  
Old Oct 15, 2009 5:06am
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Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
Pillars of salt, pillars of sand...
Hey, they had to get the term 'lot' from somewhere

*edit* this is what happens when the markets are slow. someone needs to introduce some volatility before we start passing out ffrom analogy overload.
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Old Oct 15, 2009 10:00pm
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Originally Posted by AnimalHungry View Post
It's a probabilities game. You just need to have one of these
haha. Well played, sir.
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Old Oct 13, 2009 7:33pm
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Originally Posted by NosferatuMan View Post
Don't know if this question was ever answered in this enormous thread, anyway:

-Is it possible to adjust something in MT4 to change the periods of the candles? In my case, the daily candle is not yet closed. I believe there is 2 hours difference from some of you.

I'm using a demo account in MT4 and I've tried both with IBFX and ODL.

Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately, there isnt any way to just shift time in the options. Probably because MT4 kinda sux, to be honest.

There is a script that people use for combining bars that can also shift them. I think its called periodcon.

Personally, it never worked that well for me. I'd just find a chart of someone with different bars to you, look at what broker they use and then open a practice account
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  #45969  
Old Oct 13, 2009 7:47pm
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And you download MT4 from the broker's website or you just find the srv file?

By the way, could any of you guys please tell me what is the best period for the candles? I think it is better to "watch" the same james, mike and the other experts are watching.
Just d/l MT4, a bunch of people here just run a couple of installs with different bar closes. I think SC runs 5, which is probably too much for my brain to concentrate on.

As for timeframes, I like the daily and the 4H... but will play on the 1H too, if it lines up with the higher timeframes. I trade the 15M in some specific circumstances, but those are pretty rare. Jim recommends/orders new traders to start on the dailies... and he knows what he is talking about.

Overall, for me anyways, I think the 4H is the best balance of responsiveness and noise-smoothing. As I said to someone the other day - ever noticed that your keyboard has the $ symbol above the 4? Not a coincidence
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  #46399  
Old Oct 19, 2009 11:44pm
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I took it however had my stop loss about the 50 fib on the pin trying on increase my lot size. I lost the trade the following day even though the pin never actually failed.
The problem here is that you are the only one looking at a fib line on a single bar.

These levels only work if there is a bunch of people with money that also care about the line - and, in this case, they dont. So the level you are putting your stop at pretty much means nothing to the market, and so it has no reason to respect your stop.

I like tighter stops, sometimes, if the situation is right and there is a decent reason to do it (wanting to reduce risk to a specific amount with a random stop isnt a good reason, that's what minilots were invented for). But most of the time I just go for a proper full bar stop and manage going forwards.

If you really have to try and get tighter stops, make them PA based. Drop down to the 4H or 1H and look for PA. See if there are any s/r levels that might work. Put it behind a round number. Chuck it behind yesterdays open/close on London or NY. Anything is better than an arbitary 'my stop is half the length of this bar' (which is what the 50% fib actually is, once you strip the mystical nonsense).

*edit* I actually liked your entry, btw. Pin off a PPZ with the trend and a decent distance to clear support... and it stopped exactly where we think it should have...

posting from the beach while checking the H4 charts. something seriously wrong with me
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Old Oct 20, 2009 1:35am
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morning yawl, heres one ill be watching out for today. gb/cad daily IB. I am not sure how far she will run and i dont know if we will get new lows but i think it has some promise if played tightly?? any thought welcome??
cheers
jon
Couple of quick ones:

D1
- that's a small setup following a big move. As someone smarter than me once put it, dont pick up pennies in front of a freight train

H4
- I'd be hesitant to call that a double top, given it occurs at the bottom. Retest of a PPZ? sure.

- that isnt really bearish divergence. If anything, it is bullish on the RSI and non-existant on the MACD... As for RSI divergence in general, the only use I have ever really found for it is in looking for a trend change, which doesnt really apply here. And it usually jumps around like an epileptic kangaroo. Be interested in hearing from anyone who uses it more consistently.

Overall, I wouldnt exactly be loading up here. Tread carefully, friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeChaos View Post
i envy your trade office, lol
I wish - my 'trading office' is a spare bedroom that leaks in thunderstorms and doubles as a storage unit... dont be too jealous, I'm on my April holiday, lol
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Last edited by joelcf, Oct 20, 2009 1:46am
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  #46497  
Old Oct 20, 2009 8:27pm
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Originally Posted by FX_Serg View Post
Mikali, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you draw the fibo wrong.
It doesnt really matter.

Hint: A man, a plan, a canal, Panama!
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